Spirit and Truth Discernment: Disqualified as a Elder / Teacher

Disqualified as a Elder / Teacher

I ran into a situation today that I feel will be a great teaching point for us all. A man named Patrick from Minnesota reached out to me and asked that we talk. (he liked what he saw in my ministry he said?) He is a man who does some street ministry and he has a online bible study going on youtube where he leads it as a teacher.

We did email, then we had a phone conversation and out of that comes the topic of who is qualified to teach and lead others in bible truth.

NOTE: None of this is gossip as I already told him all of this so he knows about it. He is acting as a public teacher and I may also do a testing to expose him as he is leading people astray. Also, I confessed to this man first hand; I had a terrible sinful life and was a wicked person but; that was all BEFORE Christ and that matters here when discussing elders! (we are to see a real CHANGE after new life amen? 2 Cor :17)

First, God has certain qualifications for any man who wants to be a leader (elder/teacher) in the body of Christ and I have covered those in the past on certain articles. I link them below and we will discuss them here later on.

Patrick ended up NOT taking a loving correction well and ended up a scorner:

Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. Proverbs 9:8

First; Patrick shared with me his suspect testimony that started me pondering this whole situation and for time sake; let me bullet point it here:

*He grew up with Jehovah witness parents, was involved in acid drugs/drinking. He said he was born again at age 18 when he was convicted of sin but he was not biblical even doing drugs and drinking.

*He got married as a believer, had 4 children with a unbeliever woman (he married for looks he said as a believer) and that marriage failed and they divorced. (he never fully left drinking and such)

*He was still into drinking (not full bible truth) and he got remarried a second time as a believer and that second marriage also failed and his life was not biblical.

*He then got remarried a third time as a believer at some point to a woman who is into demonic spirits, will not submit to him, she does NAR ways and heretical theology

*About 2 years ago (after marriage #3 issues, where they got almost to violent ways) he went on a total drunken binge and he got arrested over it all for drunk driving.

*He is now teaching a bible class on line saying he is clean of drinking .... for 2 years. Is this biblical for him to do?

Once I learned all of this; I pondered it all. Then in love and gentleness/meekness..... I went to him and asked; does he think he is qualified to be a teacher/leader in God's body. I was as kind and gentle as could be per the Word that says approach believers in this way.

I told him due to his sketchy testimony (in an out of sin/marriages as a saint) because of his recent drunken binge 2 years ago and because his house in NOT in order as he resides with a demonic rebellious woman; per the Word he is NOT biblically qualified to be a teacher/elder leader per Apostle Paul:

Titus 1

If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Here Paul warns about men prone to drinking and Patrick has shown he is prone to drinking. And sound doctrine and holding fast to the word and Patrick has no record of that.

Then in 1 Tim 3 Paul says this about an elder teacher:

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Here Paul again echoes the drinking issue and a man must rule his house well or he cant take care of the body. Also Paul mentions he must teach and have a good reputation with those out of the body. Patrick has strikes against him in all of these areas esp his reputation as he has smeared the gospel/holiness for decades.

For these biblical reasons; I was asking Patrick to reconsider being a teacher to others in the body. It was a call to just pray about it and lets study it out. But his fleshly ways had other plans....

At first, he was decent about my question but; he got ugly fast! I will post his decent text answers here and refute them as a teaching moment:

1) While it is true there is NO time given, the call is for faithful holiness and sound doctrine. A man who does drugs / drinks his whole life, divorces twice/marries three times "as a believer" and gets arrested for drunken driving risking others lives doing it just 2 years ago, is that elder/teacher holy material I ask you? You cant live in sin for almost 40 years as a saint then.... asap... be a holy elder.

2) Notice how he pulls Paul out of context? When Paul killed people he was NOT a born again saint. Patrick was a saint all the years he did drugs, drank, got arrested and had those failed marriages. Big difference to be realized here but he tires to avoid the true context.

3) Patrick fails to see the difference between preaching the gospel and teaching/leading as a elder. Paul gives the different callings in Ephesians 4:11 .... And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Note: look up those different Greek words and they have different roles. A evangelist euaggelistes means one who brings the gospel but teacher didaskalos means a instructor. Patrick can bring the gospel but he is NT qualified to instruct.

I gave him the example that my wife can share the gospel with the lost but she CANNOT teach them. And a novice can preach the gospel to the lost but he is not to be teaching and overseeing others per Paul in 1 Tim 3:6 / A man with a sinful record as a saints is NOT qualified.

He then sent this text:

1) Patrick fails to see some key issues: First, Peter was NOT born of God at that point nor was he a elder at that point. Next, the prodigal son was NOT in a elder role and we already saw what God requires for that and Patrick lacks it. We all know forgiveness always yes; but over looking a mans flaws to still be a elder/teacher in the NT body, NO!

2) Patrick then asked for scriptures to prove he cant preach. I never said he cannot preach. I said he was NOT qualified to teach per the Word. He is blurring the issue to hid his lacking ways.

Patrick tried to make the claim he does not teach but he just reads the word and tells people what it means. That is a teacher/instructor as he is on youtube doing it! He also said a house in order ONLY involves children but; we all know a wife is subject to the husband Eph 5:22 and so she is his house also.

I tried to lovingly and patiently show him the truth but; he got fleshly asap. He said he was leaving communicating with me (after 20 minutes) and he called me working with satan!

I said well then; within 20 minutes of this talk you dump us? Ok, move on as you do not love us per John 13. He then came back, ignored the wife issues/scriptures, he took back doctrines he was agreeing too and he demanded I tell him what he should do? I said he was double minded, I may be casting pearls as he ignored scriptures and I would share my recommendations here for all to see as a teaching moment. (he got fleshly again, told me I need to speak in tongues, I have a false jesus and then he again attacked me for doctrines he had just agreed with us on the day before on the phone.

(this is the man who contacted me, approved of my website and wanted to unite up???)

Patrick has shown me that he is a double minded, vomit returning, unbiblical train wreck for doctrine man. He is even out there "praying with people of the world" and giving a soft gospel NOT preaching repentance and the call to holiness.

For the benefit of all (and to test me to the Word) here are the following biblical suggestions I would make for anyone in Patrick's situation to move ahead:

1) he should stop teaching and acting as a leader as he is NOT qualified per the Word. It is hard to say if he will ever be qualified? But clearly after his poor track record of UNFAITHFULNESS/marriage issues, he is NOT elder teacher material today.

2) he can indeed preach the gospel in the streets to the lost (as long as he is not living in sin today) as that was never in question in my concerns to him and he lied about this. But teaching others, he is NOT qualified for.

3) He needs to deal with his demonic wife situation as he told me she is rebellious and following familiar spirits. He could consider biblically separate from her as long as he does not marry or lay with another. She is in line for Matt 18 biblical discipline as she claims Christ but toys with satan. But clearly; we know his house is NOT in order to be a elder/teacher.

4) Men like Patrick need to stop teaching on line, stay in the word, study and yes, fellowship with other true saints in the Word. If they know other godly men with proven track records, learn from them. It needs to be more then a 2 year time of faithfulness to teach as he has shown he cant be faithful for very long at all after almost 40 years as a saint. Why would anyone trust him to stay in God's truth as a teacher/leader?

Patrick is confused as first he said preaching is teaching. Then he sent words saying he is just preaching not teaching?????

I am not sure how anyone (who sees all these facts and knows the Word of God) could not easily see why you would NOT take teaching from this man. He resides with a so called Prophetess, she consults demon spirits along and he laughed about it on the phone, along with his other unbiblical issues make him void of this calling.

This is a good reminder that men who want to be teachers and elders need to consider much, not just rush off into it. Are you qualified, do you have the faithful track record and is your house in order?

I hope my sad experience will help you to rightly divide the word and NOT get caught up with men trying to teach or lead as they sin against the Holy Word in doing so.

Be VERY careful who you take your teaching from and test them to the Word before hand; lest you be deceived.

See several articles on biblical elders here:

http://spiritandtruthdiscernment.blogspot.com/search/label/Elders

God be praised

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Here is the biblical gospel:

http://www.dontperish.com/the-gospel.html

Here is a 10 point biblical test:

http://www.dontperish.com/10-point-biblical-test.html

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